71 of 100: On the Glory of the Christ before the world was (John 17)

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Jesus Prayed:

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus also prayed:

Joh 17:22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

How is it possible for Jesus to have given the glory he himself asks to receive? I.e, Jesus asks to be glorified, but he claims to have received it and transferred it to his disciples – How so?

What is the glory Jesus is taking about and had Jesus received it? The hour was at hand when the master would be insulted and murdered. Humanly speaking, enormous shame was at hand. Likewise his disciples when they preached the new message in the risen Christ were persecuted and lived a life of poverty. We do not see the disciples sitting on thrones but rather they were thrown in prison, excommunicated, scattered and some even killed.

If Jesus’ pre-existent glory is spoken of, how can he transfer this glory to his disciples?

Jesus desires:

Joh 17:24  Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

The follow passages show that the Father also loved us even before our birth:

Joh 17:23  loved them EVEN AS you loved me.

Mat 25:34  Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:4  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

Rev 13:8  and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world

Jeremiah could also claim that he was consecrated in heaven and loved before the he was born and was appointed a prophet while he was in heaven and then incarnated to deliver the message – but we need spiritual discernment to understand the language of Jesus and Jeremiah:

Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

I.e.

1Pe 1:20  He was foreknown before the foundation

So, we see God can call on things as if they were even before thy come into existence and one can by faith refer to the future as if they were present.

This post examines the glory of Christ in the context of his prayer of John 17.

John 17: The Messiah prays to his God – Ten reasons why the trinitarian interpretation is incorrect

The context of John 17 is a prayer prior to being led to be nailed. His prayer includes his requests and accomplishments. He also makes further requests for his disciples and future believers.

That fact that this is a prayer proves Jesus’ human identity. Does the Almighty need to pray to anyone? Is there any sense for God to incarnate and then pray to another God when he himself is the Almighty?

#1

Joh 17:1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven

If Jesus is the Almighty God as many assert then he has NO need to look up to make his petitions.

  • Heaven is the place where his God and Father resides, therefore he looks up
  • Only his Father had the answers, Jesus being a fragile mortal needed to pray and put his trust in the Almighty God.

Men pray to God, not God to God except if you are a Hindu or follower of Zeus.

Joh 17:9  I am praying for them.

#2

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

Jesus addressed his God (YHWH) in heaven as the only true God (thereby refuting trinity).  Jesus is NOT the only true God but YHWH – The God of Israel! 

Salvation/Eternal Life depends on:

  1. Knowing YHWH – The only eternal God.
  2. Knowing Jesus – his son and mediator who is the living example and way to the Only true God. Jesus’ life of obedience is the living example of what is pleasing to God. His teachings and parables teach us about God’s love, judgments and his expectations from us.

Unfortunately many Christians deny the supremacy of the eternal God – even the very God Jesus himself worshipped and have gone after “mysterious” fables. The God of Jesus is:

1Ti 1:17  The King eternal, incorruptible, invisible, the only God

Jesus does play a critical role in God’s eternal purpose and is by whom salvation/eternal life has been granted but this was achieved by his sincere worship of his God.

#3

“that they may be one EVEN as we are one,”

If Jesus is one in nature with his Father then it follows we are also one in nature with the Father. Jesus always spoke of spiritual oneness and never physical oneness as is commonly misunderstood.

Jesus possessed a human nature and was one with his Father spiritually. We should try to attain the same oneness, lest his prayer for us is of none effect.

With a trinitarian framework of interpretation it is then impossible to understand Jesus’ claim to unity with his Father and his disciples:

Joh 17:23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

The love and the desire of the Father is expressed so magnificently:

  • loved them even as you loved me
  • become perfectly one
    • How much perfection was Jesus praying for?

Unfortunately, the trinitarian requires the Father to be a ‘justice seeking’ God except through Jesus thereby denying him the benevolent attributes as a Father. But the Father loved us before the foundation of the world intends to give us our share of eternal inheritance.

#4

Jesus he seeks to be glorified. The fact that he seeks to be glorified by the one he is praying to proves he cannot of himself be glorified:

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence

Jesus was GIVEN authority, now one who is God needs none to shower upon him authority

Joh 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh,

Joh 17:7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you.

It is amazing how many times the son acknowledges the Father while the followers of the Nicean creed deny this and vehemently teach otherwise.

#5

Jesus’ focus was for the world to know that God sent and consecrated him and not for people to believe in a trinity or incarnations:

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

#6

His preaching mission was to manifest God’s name or to teach about his God and Father which he accomplished. He came in God’s name and manifested his name to us:

Joh 17:26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

Joh 17:12  While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me.

oh 17:11  And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

Joh 17:6  I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world.

#7

Joh 17:18  As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.

The one being sent is greater than the one sent.

Do we think disciples and Jesus form a trinty because Jesus sends them, then why do you think Jesus forms a trinity with the Father because God sent him?

Notice how Jesus explicitly states “As you sent me – I have sent them”. He gave his disciples authority with power to do miracles as he himself received such authority from the Father. He gave them teachings of truth even as he had received the truth from his Father.

Did sending his disciples mean they all entered virgins and come out as new born babies like Jesus? No.

“God sent” is dealt further towards the end of this post.

#8

Joh 17:8  For I have given them the words that you gave me,

Joh 17:14  I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

Jesus gives all credit for his deeds and words to his Father and God.

The prophets often spoke thus:

Jer 13:3  Yahweh’s word came to me the second time, saying,

So also Jesus prays about his accomplished mission of handing the word of truth down to his disciples.

#9

It is often asserted this glory relates to the glory at Genesis either as creator or as medium of creation. But this point is refuted in the illustration that follows:

creator jesus devil all these i will give temptation

Jesus always attributed the creator as his God:

Mat 19:4  He answered, “Have you not read that HE who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

Mar 13:19  For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that GOD created until now, and never will be.

#10

Joh 17:14  I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

Jesus was not of this world spiritually, but physically he was the son of man and of the world. He was heaven authorised and set his mind on heavenly things and therefore was from heaven.

Joh 17:15  I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

Joh 17:16  They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

Christ’s Glory before the world was

Jesus prays for the glory that he had before the world was to be bestowed upon him. Let us explore what this glory was that Jesus had before his birth.

Examining Jesus’ phrases scripturally – For God works thus:

Rom 9:10  Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac–

Rom 9:11  for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Rom 9:12  it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13  Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

I.e. God is able to refer to things that are not yet, as though they were i.e. Jacob had glory over Esau even before they were both born, even before Abraham was born.

Rom 4:17 and calleth the things that are not, as though they were.

It is with the same eye of faith that Jesus prays when he refers to the glory he had, not that he literally pre-existed his birth.

Consider:

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Way back in Genesis, God promised the coming Messiah – the seed of Abraham. This would eventually result in us inheriting the promises made to Abraham:

Gal 3:29  And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

Gal 3:14  that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Here we also get to see the glory the ‘seed’ had at the time God blessed Abraham. Jesus was fully conceived and ordained by the Father but had not come into existence nor did he preexist as a spirit being.

Notice also how we are called HEIRS according to promise.

Jesus existed as a promise and possessed great glory that the leaders could not perceive.

1Co 2:7  we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory:

Paul speaks of a newly revealed wisdom that was “foreordained” before the worlds and most interestingly for our glory.

Jesus being the central prophecy of scriptures possessed immense glory that had not yet been bestowed upon him, but was with the Father:

Joh 5:39  “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are they which testify about me.

 

Let us explore this further.

The Glories of the Christ in Prophecy

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We have already considered how Jesus was the promised seed of Abraham.

Further consider how Abraham and his coming seed are significant:

Act 3:25  Ye are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

God had always purposed that his Messiah would be the one through whom salvation would come to all the families of the earth. This is God’s divine purpose and calling.

Just as Jacob was preferred over Esau even before both of them came into existence so also Jesus is preferred over all even before he comes into existence.

Jesus was a man and men do not exist prior to their birth. These concepts do exist in other religions such as Hinduism that teach not only incarnation but even re-incarnation.

Let us consider another prophecy:

Isa 61:1  The Lord Yahweh’s Spirit is on me; because Yahweh has anointed me to preach good news to the humble. He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and release to those who are bound;

The prohecy is in present tense but it was fulfilled at his baptism and concerned his ministry:

Luk 4:21 He began to tell them, “Today, this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

So it is very obvious to those familiar with such language how Jesus had glory even before he was born.

The Lord Yahweh’s Spirit is on me” was not a statement to an angel or second person of trinity in heaven before he was born, but rather Isaiah recorded of a future event – using present tense when speaking  prophetically. Jesus did not exist during Isaiah’s time but came into existence many hundreds of years later.

So we see Jesus endowed with glory even before birth via these prophecies and has preeminence over all and he is before all spiritually speaking.

Let us consider another prophecy:

I have set Yahweh always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my tongue rejoices. My body shall also dwell in safety. For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your holy one to see corruption. You will show me the path of life. In your presence is fullness of joy. In your right hand there are pleasures forever more.”  Psalms 16:8-11 

We see the apostles interpreting the fulfilment of this prophecy thus:

Act 2:29 “Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Act 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,

Act 2:31 he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul wasn’t left in Hades, and his flesh didn’t see decay.

Act 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.

“He foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ” – Jesus did not exist during David’s time though he exists as the divine purpose of God in the pages of holy scriptures as prophecy.

Again when Pater states: “he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne” – this is the glory of Jesus that he would be KING.

Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.

What greater glory can be showered upon a man that he should sit next to God sharing God’s own throne?

The scriptures testified of the coming Christ – (declared his eternal son at resurrection) whom God would raise up or bring into existence according to his divine will and foreknowledge.

Jesus was central and key in God’s plan. This plan which was hid before had been revealed through the life of the Jewish man begotten of Mary.

Jesus had immense glory and these things were with God even before the foundations of the world were laid. But, before Jesus could take hold of that glory, he had to suffer first. Earlier he was tempted to take hold of this glory before the ‘hour’, for the tempter offered him glory thus:

Mat 4:8  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

Mat 4:9  And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

God’s foreknowledge and calling should not surprise us when we consider how Paul encourages us that even we were long conceived in glory before the worlds were:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him in love;

Notice the phrase:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

i.e. the God of Israel is God of Jesus and is responsible for bringing Jesus into existence and bringing him back from the dead. He had not not only chosen Christ but even the believers at Ephesus for Paul exhorts them:

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,

The believers in Ephesus had glory before the worlds were brought forth. Yet we do not see them glorified  because they await the resurrection. If we are able believe that our names exists in the book of life which was written before life was then you are indeed blessed. But, blessing of the glory of eternal life and honour will only be bestowed upon us at the resurrection even as the Christ received honour and glory after his trials and resurrection:

Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God,

Consider again how great is our own glory that we had with the Father before the world was:

God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, (2Ti 1:8,9)

So when we consider Jesus:

1Pe 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of the times for your sake,

Jesus was indeed foreknown to God, but had no literal existence either as an angel or spirit being or as a God. He was manifested at the end of times for our sakes I.e. the Divine will and purpose of God was eventually revealed through his human son – Jesus son of Mary.

God “promised” before the ages began – I.e. In the beginning were God’s “words” that became flesh at the “proper time”:

Tit 1:2  in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began

Tit 1:3  and at the proper time manifested in his word [LOGOS] through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by the command of God our Savior;

Jesus was well aware of these promises and knew of his glory that he had with the Father, but he existed as THE ‘promise’.

Jesus’ prayer was about realising the glory that was promised by the Father for the hour was at hand to soon receive them and be glorified.

His glories during his life – Birth, Miracles, the chosen one

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While Jesus does not refer to his present glory in his prayer, it is worth considering the glory he possessed during his ministry. God’s glory was manifest in Jesus – i.e. from word/concept phase to human state and he was a man full of grace and truth, one specially chosen of God:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Jesus received great glory when God’s voice witnessed that Jesus was his chosen son:

Luk 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my Son, my chosen: hear ye him.

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased:

Again, these verses disprove the trinity,

  • Was the First God pleased with the second God of the trinity?
  • There was no witness of the trinity – but rather that Jesus was his chosen son – Again does one God of the trinity chose another God of the trinity as his son?

The transfiguration, displayed his coming glory, along with Moses and Elijah who also appeared in glory. It is important to note the transformation took place while he was praying, i.e it was his Father who glories and transforms him. He also raised from the dust, Moses and Elijah in glory for the occasion:

“And as he was praying, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became white and dazzling. And behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah; who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.”  Luke 9:29-31 (RV)

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Jesus was the shining splendor of God’s glory, though his life consisted of sorrows and grief and a brutal rejection, yet, from God’s perspective he was a light shining brightly in darkness. He was the image or representation of the assurances in God, i.e. he was chosen to mediate God’s new covenant:

Heb 1:3 who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image (representation) of His essence (assurance), and upholding all things by the word of His power, through Himself cleansing of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high

The above is similar to the expression:

2Co 4:6  Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was chosen to represent God and to teach people about God i.e. about the knowledge of the glory of God. Under Moses God revealed his Glory thus:

Exo 33:18  He said, “Please show me your glory.”

Exo 33:19  He said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim Yahweh’s name before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.”

“Yahweh descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed Yahweh’s name. Yahweh passed by before him, and proclaimed, “Yahweh! Yahweh, a merciful and gracious God, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness and truth, keeping loving kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and disobedience and sin; and who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the children’s children, on the third and on the fourth generation.” Moses hurried and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshiped.”  Exodus 34:5-8 (WEBA)

What was the glory revealed to Moses?

“Yahweh! Yahweh, a merciful and gracious God, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness and truth, keeping loving kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and disobedience and sin;”

This declaration we have now seen in the face of Jesus, i.e. God has reached out to man through Jesus his chosen mediator, one greater than Moses. (Previously he had reached out through Moses when he instituted the first covenant.)

The miracles God performed through Jesus gave him glory:

Joh 2:11  This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory. And his disciples believed in him.

Glorified at resurrection

Joh 17:1  When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,

The ‘hour’ referred to the focal point of his life – even his very death – a moment of great victory and yet a moment of shame and defeat. It is a moment of victory of great faith and trust in the son that he was martyred/murdered because he preached the truth (for he appealed to the masses to repent and turn to the living God.). He glorified the Father in dire circumstances of torture, shame, agony and eventually death by putting his trust in his God and not taking matters in his won hands.

“Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you”

Jesus sees beyond the cross of the glory that lies in store for him so he is able to take courage to face his enemies. What a terrible thing for man to fall into the hands of his enemies. He was led to the cross and made his grave with the wicked in his death, but his resurrection brings him greater honour and glory than the miracles he did. He was given immortality and glorified above the angels to be seated next to his God:

Joh 17:2  since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.

Jesus refers to all authority that had been granted to him but he had to still go through one last ordeal in the coming hour before he could be made immortal and inherit the promises.

Heb 2:9  But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1Pe 1:21  who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

“that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.”  Ephesians 1:20-23 (ESV)

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The glory that he had was the promised inheritance he had with his Father through scriptures that he inherited them post his resurrection:

Joh 17:10  All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.

Jesus received all authority from God post his resurrection. This glory he had with the Father were the promises/assurances in scriptures as prophecies many of which were fulfilled/given to him at his resurrection (some to be fulfilled at the second coming to include us).

But before he received such honour it was also prophesied that the Christ should suffer first before he would be glorified:

Luk 24:26  Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”

Jesus received such glory because he had focussed his life on glorifying his God and not himself:

Joh 7:18  The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.

Joh 8:50  Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.

Joh 8:49  I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

Joh 8:54  Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’

Back to the prayer:

Joh 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

For we are also exhorted:

Romans 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

1Pe 5:10  And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

Joh 12:26  If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

I.e. we see this example in Christ who sought to glorify God during his lifetime and for that he was greatly rewarded – He is now glorified and made/decalred the eternal son of God through the resurrection unto eternal life:

Rom 1:4  and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead,

His Glory at his second coming – for all the world to see

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Jesus’ return is very significant for us, because we will receive honour and glory at his return:

1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1Pe 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed

1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Glory at his coming:

Mat 16:27  For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Mat 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So a time is coming when the disciples will share in the glory of the exalted Christ and each given a measure of their own glory.

The glory Jesus transferred

Joh 17:22  The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

  • We have explored how Jesus had glory through promises/prophecies in scriptures i.e. being a heir/son/Messiah.
  • Being a specially chosen one he has glory when he comes into existence.
  • His miracles and teachings bring him glory
  • Finally at resurrection he is fully gloried inheriting the glory that was promised to him

So also the disciples are

  • Chosen

I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. Joh 17:12 

Joh 6:70  Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve?

  • Empowered to teach and do miracles

Joh 17:18  As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.

Joh 17:19  And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

Joh 17:14  I have given them your word,

Act 2:33  Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

  • Finally at their resurrection they will also receive the inheritance of eternal life and rulership.

Now this transfer of glory is possible by the passing on the word of  truth that brings salvation to mankind:

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Joh 17:14 I have given them your word,

When we receive God’s word and his Messiah, we become heirs of the promise and have part in the glory of Jesus.

Our hope of glory

Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope

Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

1Th 2:12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Jesus was made perfect so we also hope to be made perfect:

Heb 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

Comparing scriptures with scriptures – “Scripturally speaking”

“God sent”

God Sent means God Sanctified Or God Authorised.

(Jesus did not decide to dive into Mary’s womb nor was he made to incarnate by the First God of trinity. Incarnation theories are not taught in scriptures)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.”  (Joh 13:20)

 

 

“Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” (Joh 3:2 ) – Nicodemus.

Did Nicodemus understand Jesus to be in heaven with God? No! He believed he was a human being empowered by God!

“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” (Joh 1:6)

 

Was John in heaven and had to incarnate to deliver the message? No! That is the biblical language.

 “As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.” (Joh 17:18)

“for I came from God and I am here.  I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.” (Joh 8:42)

“God sent” is same as ‘I came from God‘ – not literal but spiritual.

God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness.” (Act 3:26)

 

 

“This Moses, whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’—this man God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush.” (Act 7:35)

As Moses was sent, in the same manner the Christ has also been sent. As Moses was raised to be the first mediator, so also the second Adam was raised up to be the second and last mediator of God.

“The glory that I had with you”

The glory that he had was the promise of inheritance he had with his Father. The  scriptures testify to these through various prophecies. He inherited them post his resurrection.

Principle:

“calleth the things that are not, as though they were.” (Rom 4:17 )

“who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world” ( 1Pe 1:20 )

Jesus was ‘foreknown’ i.e. by God’s ability to force. He did not have a previous avatar neither did he incarnate

“The glory that you have given me I have given to them,” (Joh 17:22)

Which was given to us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, (2Ti 1:8,9)

 

“Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Gal 3:16 )

Jesus existed with the Father as a promise /prophecy.

Our share in the inheritance of the promises:

“And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise“. (Gal 3:29)

“for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.” (Gal 3:26)

 

 

“In those days and at that time, I will cause a Branch of righteousness to grow up to David. He will execute justice and righteousness in the land.” (Jer 33:15 )

“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with he clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom that which will not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13, 14)

Notice the glory of the son of man in the ‘visions’ of Daniel that he would receive at a future date

“Yahweh says to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.” (Psa 110:1)

 Fulfilled at the resurrection as Peter testified:

Act 2:36  Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

“Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and he will reign as king and deal wisely, and will execute justice and righteousness in the land.” (Jer 23:5 )

“and speak to him, saying, ‘Yahweh of Armies says, “Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: and he shall grow up out of his place; and he shall build Yahweh’s temple; even he shall build Yahweh’s temple; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; and he shall be a priest on his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” (Zec 6:12,13)

“Yet I have set my King on my holy hill of Zion.” I will tell of the decree. Yahweh said to me, “You are my son. Today I have become your father” (Psa 2:6,7)

He chose us in him before the foundation of the world

As Jesus had glory with the Father, so also we had glory before the worlds were but to a much lesser degree.

“The glory that you have given me I have given to them,”  (Joh 17:22)

“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,” (Eph 1:4)

“Which was given to us in Christ Jesus before times eternal” (2Ti 1:8,9)

 

“But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,” (Gal 1:15)

–       Paul

 

“all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.” (Rev 13:8)

 

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” (Mat 25:34)

 

 
“God Raised up”

Incarnation is not taught in the bible. God by his power raises up who he wills for his purpose.

“And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, ‘I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.'” (Act 13:22)

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up,” (Rom 9:17)

 “and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David,” (Luk 1:69)

 

“I raised up some of your sons for prophets, and some of your young men for Nazirites. Isn’t this true, you children of Israel?” says Yahweh..” (Amo 2:11)

“This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ “(Act 7:37)

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us“(Joh 1:14 )

This is the work of the Father and not incarnation. He caused the words of life to take on flesh in the same way he raised for himself prophets like Jeremiah and others.

 

 

“I am not of this world.”

This is a spiritual phrase and not literal. The ways of this world are set on evil and self glory whereas the ways of the son of man was set to seek the kingdom of God and be light. He reflected the will of his Father in his life and hence from heaven. He was not only authorised by God but also behaved in manner worthy of his calling.

“He said to them, “You are from beneath. I am from above. You are of this world. I am not ofthis world.” Joh 8:23 

“Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn’t be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here.” (Joh 18:36)

I.e. our spiritual journey is destined towards God’s eternal glory and not the glory of the kingdoms of men

“If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (Joh 15:19 )

As Jesus was not of this world so also his disciples are not of this world. That is Jesus and his disciples do heaven’s bidding and seek for a kingdom not in this world but the kingdom the Father has prepared for them

 

 I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. ( Joh 17:14 )

 

They are not of the world EVEN AS I am not of the world. (Joh 17:16)

“I wrote to you in my letter to have no company with sexual sinners; yet not at all meaning with the sexual sinners of this world, or with the covetous and extortionists, or with idolaters; for then you would have to leave the world. But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortionist. Don’t even eat with such a person.” (1 Cor 5:9-11)

Spiritual significance of of not being of this world but from above

“By faith, Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out to the place which he was to receive for an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he went. By faith, he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. For he looked for the city which has the foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”  (Heb 11:8-10_

Example of how by faith we are not of this world

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light. (Luk 16:8)

Sons of this world is contrasted with sons of light

Further reading: Posts on why the Christ did not pre-exist

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2 thoughts on “71 of 100: On the Glory of the Christ before the world was (John 17)

  1. Pingback: 72 of 100: The Apostles’ Glory with the Father before the world was and the Book of Life | Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.

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