70 of 100: Did the Christ pre-exist? Examining the Gospel of John (Ch 1-6)

Please refer to this post for an introduction:

John 1:1 – That which was from the beginning,

Contrasting John’s own interpretation with his gospel record: 1John 1

The Word of Life

1Jn 1:1  That which was from the beginning,

v/s

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word,

1Jn 1:1  concerning the Word of life

  • In the word of God is eternal life.
  • We know God by his word.
  • We know the will of God through his words.

Word became flesh

1Jn 1:1  that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we beheld, and our hands handled,

v/s

Joh 1:14  And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

In Hindu religion – God’s do incarnate, but in Christianity the word of God incarnates as flesh.

God causes this to happen in that he created a son via Mary thereby fulfilling Moses’ prophecy ‘God will raise up a prophet like me’

The Word was with God / which was with the Father

1Jn 1:2   which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

v/s

Joh 1:1  and the Word was with God

Eternal life was with the Father and has been manifested through Jesus the son of man. Not that Jesus was a spirit being but existed conceptually or spiritually as the ‘word’, ‘life’, ‘light’ with God and these abstract perfections took on human form i.e. flesh and blood. (The tree of life was planted from the very beginning and its fruit mankind still longs to eat thereof)

A common misunderstanding of this verse is ‘God was with God’ or ‘One God was with another God’ or ‘An angel was with God’

Word is personified as was wisdom as a woman. Wisdom was with God and an integrated part of God, but wisdom is not a Goddess!

Translation/Interpretation possibilities:

which was with the Father” / “In the beginning was the word, it was with God”

In ‘it’ was life (Modern Spelling Tyndall Translation has ‘it’)

1Jn 1:2  and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

v/s

Joh 1:4  In it was life; And the life was the light of men;

John in his epistles gives a simple interpretation of his gospel record. The introductions match.

God’s light was manifest in the man Jesus!

The plan of salvation was such that God’s word and light was to be fulfilled/satisfied through a man. God caused a man to fulfil this thereby by proving that the man who God created can indeed be good. In the man Jesus was the perfect will of God manifested. What Jesus demonstrated in his life was how men ought to live a life according to God’s word, light and love.

Eternal life was with God and Eternal life became flesh

1Jn 1:2  the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

This is propbably more easy to understand – Jesus is called eternal life, and this eternal life was with the Father and was manifest to us.

  • Eternal life with with the Father as a concept or as a desire to give it to us, etc and not that eternal life itself was an angel/2nd Person God sitting next to God
  • Eternal Life has been manifest to us i.e. this concept was made flesh.

In Prophetic terms it fulfils:

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you,

v/s

Act 3:22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me; 

God raised Moses, God raised Jeremiah, God raised Jesus – none of these men pre-existed.

Purpose

1Jn 1:3  that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ:

1Jn 1:4  and these things we write, that our joy may be fulfilled.

Fellowship is with two distinct beings: Father AND the son (the son who who has been recently manifested.)

One is a eternal spirit being – Elohim Yahweh, the other his son was his word that was made flesh and himself attains eternal life.

The word was God

What God intends is reflected through his word and therefore the word is as God is or the ‘word was God’.

So also it follows that light was with God and light was God.

If

“God is light” 1Jn 1:5 

then

“Light is God”

But, God is literally not the light we see of a tube light or the Sun’s rays. So, these have to be understood in their respective spiritual contexts.

‘what God was, the Word was‘ – NEB translation

‘what God was, the Word was‘ NEB translation easily explains the plan and the purpose of God manifest in human flesh – i.e. What God wanted – the son fulfilled, i.e. The will of God was manifest in the face of Jesus.

The widely accepted decision not to make any distinction between articulated ‘HO THEOS’ and unarticulated ‘THEOS’ in John 1:1 is unfortunate because it is biased.

Summary

John introduces Jesus as a pre-existent logos and not a spirit being/2nd person of trinity/angel! So Jesus did not literally preexist but as John teaches us he is the logos of God made flesh.

Read more here on John 1:1:

John 1:18 – which is in the bosom of the Father,

Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This if interpreted spiritually means that he was intimate with the Father. Now no-one has seen God but Moses is recorded to have seen and spoken to God – face to face.

On literal reading we get:

a. No one has seen God

b. Moses saw God

c. Therefore, Statement A is false

But if we understand the passage spiritually, and examine the text in detail – an angel spoke to Moses who bore the name of God and therefore statements a and b can both be true, that Moses spoke to God through the angel.

‘bosom of the Father’ – literal or spiritual?

More here:

John 1:30 – for he was before me

Joh 1:30  This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is become before me: for he was before me.

Spiritual reading: Jesus was before John in importance and significance! What John intended to convey was:

Joh 1:34  And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.

  • Joh 1:30 – cometh a man
  • Joh 1:34 – Son of God

Hence Jesus takes precedence over John!

John 2:19 – Destroy this temple

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jesus did not explain to his audience that he was speaking of his body! This message was only clear to his ‘intended’ audience after the resurrection!

A literal reading would lead one to think that he is referring to the temple that Herod had restored! A spiritual reading would lead to new understanding that would be clear only in the epistles of Paul – that Jesus would be the church’s body and head.

A literal reading would lead one to expect that the temple would be destroyed and Jesus would restore it in three days.

John 3:4 – Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

Joh 3:4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

A literal reading of Jesus’ saying would lead to the obvious conclusion of Nicodemus.

A spiritual reading requires explanation and leads one to new understandings of baptisms by water and spirit.

The literal reading is impossible – so a spiritual reading is both required and intended! A literal reading would cause people to claim how their moms swallowed them and ejected them out again through faith.

John 3:13 – But he that descended out of heaven

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, which is in heaven.

Assuming the RV/KJV tense is reasonable,

a. Jesus is claiming he has already ascended to heaven but he was on earth

b.  he ‘descended out of heaven’ – Again for Nicodemus this is an impossible statement because Jesus was a man born to Mary. Is there then a spiritual significance?

d. ’which is in heaven’ – he is presently in heaven  – Again for Nicodemus this is an impossible statement because Jesus was before him.

Based on the spiritual interpretation ‘born again’ by Jesus himself, we then look at the  spiritual message in Jesus’ statement:

‘descended out of heaven’ – Incarnation as understood by Greeks/Hindus/Buddhists is possible but in Judaism this concept does not exist. As we already saw in section 1 (John 1 and 1John 1) that Jesus as a word/light existed with God but not literally!

A literal reading would lead one to a mystical conclusion of Jesus the divine who is at two places at once and that defeats the purpose of him being human!

‘he came forth from God’ i.e. he was ‘raised up’ by God to be a prophet. If that is the case then that does put Jesus in the category of Jeremiah whom God foreknew before his birth, but Jesus is given more significance because he exceeds Jeremiah in purpose.

‘descended out of heaven’ – reading very literally – he has just jumped down from heaven, so even a very literal reading renders it impossible! Common belief that he incarnated is not compatible with the law and the prophets. A spiritual reading leads to the fact that his origin is from heaven in terms of purpose. Now Adam also originated from heaven but is of the dust because of his failure, the second ‘man’ is from heaven because he overcame sin in that he was God/heaven focussed. If Jesus failed he would have also fallen from his state.

Jesus was God’s son because God caused him to be through Mary separate from all other humans. But his real sonship was in the fact that he did those things that pleased the Father:

Mat 3:17  and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

As a son he is from heaven, not that he descends from heaven literally but has his origin in the will of God that is manifest in human form.

‘hath ascended into heaven’ – Jesus was rewarded with riches and glory for being faithful human. He goes to heaven for the first time after his ascension, therefore when Jesus said those words he had not yet ascended but would ascend into heaven.

Spiritual message for us:

Col 3:2  Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth.

‘which is in heaven’ i.e. Jesus was always heaven focused and we also ought to be Christ focussed. Jesus destination was heaven-ward.

By this statement “no man hath ascended into heaven”, Jesus dismissed the concept of goto heaven on death as he actively preached resurrection in the gospel of John. Further he states ‘no man’ referring to himself as ‘man’.

Joh 3:31  – He that cometh from above

Joh 3:31  He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Literal reading: Jesus came from above and incarnated as human!

Spiritual reading: God from his abode in heaven caused a man to be born to declare him. Jesus had a unique birth is emphasised! The son of God by his birth is undermined by the trinity explanation.

The fact that Jesus is son of God is very significant, but because the Nicea framework re-reads ‘son of God’ as ‘God the son’ causes the confusion and literal reading.

Now this son is very significant because the Father indeed loves this son above all else:

Joh 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Important to note that it is the Father who GIVES and the son receives because the son does not of his own posses anything!

Spiritually, the very ‘purpose of God’ incarnated rather than  God incarnated. Since there is only one God and there are two persons (Father and son) – trinity is an incorrect solution. Even if they share the same nature they are two persons like a husband and wife share the same ‘human’ nature.

Jesus is from above is significant in that he was chosen by God/heaven thereby authorising to say and do the the things he did. Jesus was heaven focussed – for that was his very purpose of birth.

Joh 4:34  Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to accomplish his work.

So, God had specially chosen Jesus as he had chosen Moses earlier but as his very own son begetting him through a woman.

Jesus was God sent i.e. God ordained:

Joh 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.

Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me; he hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him.

First he says: “I do nothing of myself”

Next he says “but as the Father taught me”

Hence Jesus gives the full glory to God but at the same time showing how he is from God/heaven, i.e he spoke those words because he had received it from heaven.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second MAN is of heaven.

While both Adam and Jesus were created by God – one through mud and the other through a woman and Jesus himself a descendent of Adam, Paul is speaking of his spiritual lineage. Jesus overcame sin and was destined/consecrated to be holy from birth.

Paul does not say the second God of trinity incarnated as man but that a man came out of heaven. Paul’s emphasis is that Jesus is the ‘second man’ or second Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:45   So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Contrasting heaven and earth – Spiritual significance:

Earthly

Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, the which is idolatry;

Heavenly

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as God’s elect, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

We are also to seek the things that are above:

Col 3:1 If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God.

Col 3:2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth.

Out of heaven – is significant of his holy birth and that he lived a holy /Godly life and was authorised by heaven or ‘God sent’.

Even Jesus’ disciples were not of this world because God’s word transforms us:

Joh 17:14  I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

Was Jesus conscious of his pre-existence?

Joh 8:28 “but as the Father taught me”

Did Jesus receive this teaching from the Father in heaven? If so then when he came down to earth, he had to remember his life in heaven. If that is the case he has memories of his past life which is typical of Buddhism’s re-incarnation where one remembers events from their past life. But Jesus’ language is spiritual rather than literal.

Jesus gets his teachings by reading the Torah and Prophets as we seen the young Jesus at 12 asking questions. We also find him growing in wisdom, which contradicts to having eternal knowledge trapped in a baby!

Jesus gets his teachings and assurance through visions from his Father and angels as the prophets got it. Angels often attended him. We also see a Jesus who is diligent in prayer and therefore a direct communication with his Father would have made it clear to him his identity as the Messiah and purpose in the will of God.

Joh 4:14  – Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw.

Joh 4:14  but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life.

Literal reading: “Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw.”

Spiritual reading: The words he spoke if drunk leads one to eternal life. Water has life, but his words were ‘spirit and truth’ that leads to eternal life.

Joh 5:17 – but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work.

Joh 5:18  For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Literal reading: Since Jesus calls God his Father, the Jews think he is claiming to be equal  to God! This is possible as the son of a rich man may command respect on account of his lineage.

Spiritual reading: We also call God as our Father and no one accuses us of claiming to be equal with God! Though by calling him our Father we may expect to inherit from hi, Further, Jesus was the son of God through Mary and eternally begotten from the grave! Jesus gives supremacy to the Father by calling God his Father and it is true that he eventually inherits the throne from his Father in heaven.

Jesus justified his actions that Father is a merciful God and that it was ok to heal on a sabbath.

Joh 5:43 – I am come in my Father’s name,

Joh 5:43  I am come in my Father’s name,

John 10:25  the works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me.

‘Father’s name’ means he was authorised by God. This is common in daily life when you  represent someone/entity/corporation. A mere display of a visiting card makes you significant if the company you work is a big corporation.

Here is an example of an angel bearing God’s name and its implications:

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. (Exodus 23:20-23 KJV)

  • I send an ANGEL before thee
  • Obey his voice
  • He will not pardon your transgressions
  • ‘for my NAME is in him’ — So God designates his Angel to his bidding.

Now this Angel though he bears the name of God is still an angel of God and worships his God. In the same way even though Jesus bore the Father’s name, Jesus still worships his God!

Here is an example of doing a work in God’s name:

2Ki 9:3 Then take the flask of oil and pour it on his head and say, ‘Thus says the LORD, I anoint you king over Israel.’ Then open the door and flee; do not linger.”

The common phrase ‘Thus says the LORD’ is to state those words in the Father’s name.

Joh 6:29 – whom he hath sent.

Joh 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Harmonising Jesus’ phrase with the Law and the prophets

Literal reading: Jesus was in heaven and God told him to “go down”

Spiritual reading: Contrast with Moses how Moses was God sent

Act 7:35  This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? him hath God sent to be both a ruler and a deliverer with the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

In the parable the servants and Jesus are ‘sent’ by God

Luk 20:11  And he SENT yet another servant: and him also they beat, and handled him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

Luk 20:13  And the lord of the vineyard said, What shall I do? I will SEND my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him.

God shall raise up a prophet

Deu 18:15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

The Torah explicitly denies the divinity of the coming Messiah. The Messiah would be great in that he would like Moses be a significant and greater prophet but concerning his nature ‘of thy brethren’ i.e. 100% human – ‘Jew’.

As Moses was sent of God, so Jesus was sent of God! So a spiritual reading in the contexts of scriptures (OT) yields the meaning of ‘God sent’ as:

Jer 35:15  I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.

Luk 11:49  Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send unto them prophets and apostles; and some of them they shall kill and persecute;

  • Jesus was ‘raised up’ – birth
  • Jesus was sent – Authorised by God
  • Jesus came down from heaven – He was God’s idea or will
  • Father’s name – Mediator of God

Peter explains this prophecy thus:

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.

The disciples were sent by Jesus as the Father had sent Jesus:

Joh 13:20  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.”

You and Jesus attain spiritual unity from the above statement but not a trinity type relationship.

Why the Trinity logic does not work:

  • whoever receives me receives the one who sent me: therefore Father is son and son is Father and both are God
  • whoever receives the one I send receives me: Extending: Peter was sent by Jesus so Peter was Jesus and Jesus was Peter.

Joh 6:33  – Bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven

Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Joh 6:38  For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Now the phrase ‘cometh down out of heaven’ is paralleled with ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’

Manna rained from heaven, but Jesus says he is the true bread that came down from heaven.

Literal reading again leads to incarnation of sorts.

Spiritual reading:

Jesus is bread, but Jesus is not literally bread!

They asked:

Joh 6:42  And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how doth he now say, I am come down out of heaven?

This is the very question we are also seeking answers to!

Jesus replies

1.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Well… As usual Jesus answers a question in his wisdom so his listeners can be more confused.

He is now teaching the doctrine of resurrection: ‘I will raise him up in the last day’

So, how is resurrection relevant to him coming down from heaven?

Also, ‘No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him’

‘I am come down out of heaven’ just means God ‘sent me’ as seen in previous sections. Since he is authorised by heaven and given such powers he can give life.

2.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me.

Wow: “Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned” – How so?

So, folks who have been taught by the Father and have learned the truth, will be able to come to Jesus. I.e. people would already have knowledge to be able to come to Jesus.

Well… As usual Jesus answers a question in his wisdom so his listeners are perhaps even more confused.

Spiritual reading: One could be taught by God through the scriptures, so Jesus is alluding that if one understood the scriptures (i.e. OT writings), they would be able to recognise the Messiah.

If read literally, Further Jesus contradicts himself:

‘Ye have neither heard his voice at any time‘ (Joh 5:37).

v/s

‘And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned’ (v 45)

If taken literally it will contradict – not if taken spiritually.

What Jesus meant was

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not.

That is they were unwilling to heed to the voice of scriptures which was the voice of God given through the prophets.

3.

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is from God, he hath seen the Father.

Spiritually reading the passage based on v45, Jesus is not really claiming exclusive sighting of the Father:

Exodus 33:11

Yahweh spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Jesus is speaking of his spiritual state of being with the the Father at all times because his mind (spirit) always craves and seeks his Father and therefore he sees the Father always spiritually. Catholics believe Jesus lacked faith because he could see heaven directly. This is classic Catholic doctrine that comes through literal understanding of Jesus’ words!

4.

Joh 6:47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

Joh 6:49  Your fathers did eat the manna in the wilderness, and they died.

Joh 6:50  This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

Joh 6:51  I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

Again there is an emphasis on the doctrine of eternal life.

Again ‘I will give is my flesh’ is not intended to be taken literally.

“This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven” – that he was provided by God/heaven

Joh 6:57  As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.

Now Jesus explains the meaning of his statements:

  • ‘Father sent me’ – appointed by God
  • ‘ I live because of the Father’ – Jesus has no life of his own but feeds of the Father. What does he feed of the Father? How does he eat the Father? He seeks to do the will of his Father and relies on his Father.
  • ‘he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me’ – Since Jesus feeds of the Father for his sustenance we also can feed of Jesus to get our sustenance. Feeding of Jesus is same as feeding of the Father, because alls hat means is that Jesus depended on his Father and did his will.

5.

Joh 6:58  This is the bread which came down out of heaven:

The goal for this teaching is that Jesus is being provided to the Jews by God (who is in heaven). Jesus is God’s presentation to the people. Eating Jesus literally does not make sense and no one actually cooked Jesus. This is purely spiritual: This is to rely on God like Jesus relied on his God for sustenance and to feed of the word of God!

(Though the Catholic faith believes that the wafer is the body of Jesus and to be a cannibal was required by the Lord. Classic pit fall with literal reading)

“that a man may eat thereof, and not die.” – Literal reading leads one to think if they chop a pound of Jesus’ flesh and eat of it they will never die as is the  theme of many fantasy stories. A spiritual reading leads one to feed on his ‘words’ and believe that he was God sent!

Jesus got his sustenance by living of the Father, so we also get sustenance by living of Jesus i.e. living like Jesus. Jesus’ life was pleasing to the Father and therefore he is made a template for men to follow.

Joh 6:57  As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.

6.

Joh 6:56  He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.

The act is spiritual and not literal, that is Jesus’ body is life in that we become one with Jesus by consuming him or accepting him in our lives because he is God sent.

How can Jesus live in us? – By doing what Jesus taught us to do.

How do we live in Jesus? – Because God designated him as the saviour and he is the perfect man we can base our lives upon.

Why do we live in Jesus? – Because he was heaven sent or from heaven!

7.

Through Jesus is proclaimed salvation:

he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. Joh 6:51 

So,

‘I am the living bread which came down out of heaven’ – implies that he is God sent or God ordained i.e Ordained from heaven! Jesus has his origin from heaven by plan and purpose (not as a spirit being that incarnates as flesh).

Jesus sacrifice – Not the torture or brutal murder but his life of dedication including a brutal murder for the sake of the truth i.e an appeal to wicked men to change their ways before destruction should sweep them away, pleased the Father. The Father not willing the wicked should perish appealed through his son than men ought to repent, even at the cost of the death of his death. It is on the basis of this life of consecration and love that forgiveness of sins has come about (not account of a divine being dying).

8.

“the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.” Joh 6:63 

We eat Jesus’ words – accept and follow his words in faith and hope to receive eternal life. The words of Jesus are spirit and life. They are God’s words, but Jesus himself is a representative of God’s word in action/flesh.

‘I am come down out of heaven’ – then means that:

  • He was God sent/authorised
  • He comes down in the context of the bread of life and he himself sustains himself by the word of his Father and puts his trust in his Father.
  • Jesus is the bread of life that originates from heaven. Jesus was not born by the will of man but by the will of God. Therefore Jesus is specifically chosen.
  • Jesus’ life and example then becomes the template for man to follow to attain eternal life – we feed of Jesus like Jesus feeds of the Father. Jesus is the word of God in flesh and therefore in Jesus is the full will of God fulfilled.

Joh 6:62 – Where he was before

Joh 6:62  What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before?

Literal reading: He literally was a spirit and became a baby and grew up conscious of his previous avatar!

Spiritual reading:

‘where he was before’ –  Jesus’ rightful place was in heaven but he was on earth to serve. He had to serve and suffer before he could be glorified. He was not literally in heaven before he came down but what what is probably intended was that that being the son of God he was with the Father that the Father loved him before he came to being.

Jesus origin was from heaven, the fact that he literally was the son of God without a human Father clearly shows his origin was from above. Jesus was the word of God and light of God with the Father from the beginning.

This is more easily understand in the context of Paul’s letter to the Ephesians:

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:4  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

  • We are blessed in the heavenly places – Not literally transported to heaven
  • Yea re loved and chosen by God even before the creation – How so? Literally r spiritually?

Eph 1:5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Jesus and us were in the mind of God even before the creation – ‘according to the good pleasure of his will’.

Again,

Eph 1:10 unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,

Eph 1:11 in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will;

Both the Christ and us are have been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will – i.e. the Christ and us are chosen and loved before time.

With such an amazing calling and known to God before time with a place already reserved for you in heaven you could claim you were in heaven by faith. So when you go to the place destined or prepared for you you would return to the place that was always yours (not literally) but according to the good pleasure of his will.

Jesus was God’s idea as much as Jeremiah was God’s idea:

Jer 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jeremiah therefore is of divine origin but was born of natural conception, while Jesus was called and chosen of a supernatural conception.

All of Jesus’ phrases such as ‘where he was before’ pertains to the fact of his virgin birth that heaven and earth meet to conceive the child.

Jesus had dual citizenship (not dual nature)

  1. His permanent address of residence is “#1, Heaven” because that was his Father’s address
  2. His temporary address was #27, Nazareth, Israel” because that was his pseudo Father’s address.

So Jesus’ real identity is of heaven and from heaven, because of his purpose and conception, though people knew him as son of Joseph! Jesus was destined to seat on his Father’s throne.

Spiritual reading leads one to believe:

Joh 6:69  And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God.

I.e. he was the ‘holy one’ conceived of God/heaven.

Understanding the ‘From heaven’ phrase:

Mar 11:30  The baptism of John—was it from heaven, or from men? Answer me.”

Here it is obvious the phrase ‘from heaven’ means authorised or originated from God. Likewise Jesus as the son of God originates from heaven as he was God’s idea.

When we believe in Jesus we actually believe on the one who sent Jesus:

John 12:44   Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting God, because Jesus only conveyed God’s words to the Jews:

1Sa 8:7  And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Jesus Witnesses of himself

Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing:

Jesus was conveying God’s words. But Jesus of his own can nothing because he was a mere mortal. But in Jesus we how God loves and rewards those who please him with their holy lives.

Joh 5:30  because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus’ goal was not to do his will but his Father’s will.

Jesus’ language as recorded in John:

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Literal reading: Jesus himself died and his disciples also died. So, was Jesus telling a lie or speaking spiritually of the resurrection?

Rejoice, you were with God before the world came to be and therefore you will return to where you originated (spiritually speaking):

Rev 13:8  and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.


 

The language of John as are Jesus put it ‘in figures of speech’, so it is a spiritual effort to discern what he meant by what he said:

Joh 16:25  I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father.

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One thought on “70 of 100: Did the Christ pre-exist? Examining the Gospel of John (Ch 1-6)

  1. Pingback: 69 of 100: Reasons why Christ did not Pre-exist his birth | Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.

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