69 of 100: Reasons why Christ did not Pre-exist his birth

Reasons why Christ did not Pre-exist his birth

#1.

A search of the old testament scriptures, reveals that Jesus is missing in the Old testament as a person but only exists as a prophecy, i.e. that he would come to existence at a future time. The hope of the Messiah was that a Messiah would be born at a future age and save the people from their troubles.

Joh 5:39  Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;

The law and the prophets reveal, YWHW and his angels are at work along with the 4 living creatures and cherubim and seraphims but no Jesus.

#2.

The gospel records of Mathew, Mark and Luke give no emphasis/importance to his pre-existence other than referencing OT prophecies. In the Acts records that there is absolutely no emphasis in preaching the divinity of Jesus or his pre-existence.

Luke’s Interpretation Framework – i.e. Jesus was known to God as part of his eternal plan and purpose but not as a pre-existing being. Jesus pre-existed as a prophecy before his time:

Luk 1:69  And hath raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of his servant David

Luk 1:70  (As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets which have been since the world began),

[

Luk 24:25  And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

Luk 24:26  Behoved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:27  And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:44  And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, how that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me.

]

#3.

The prophecy of Moses in the Torah was to expect a Jewish man like Moses. ‘Raise him up‘ – cause him to come to existence for a purpose.

‘like unto me’: As Moses was sent of God, so Jesus was sent of God!

Act 3:25 You are the sons of the PROPHETS and of the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’
Act 3:26 God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness.” (ESV)

Having raised up – God promised that he would raise up a PROPHET, and send him to teach the people. Peter explains that God had appointed his servant Jesus, or had commissioned him to go and preach to the people to turn them away from their sins.

Jesus was to be an Israelite and Jew but supersede Moses.

This prophecy was fulfilled thus as interpreted by the disciple Peter: – ‘RAISED UP HIS SERVANT’:

prophet

Paul and Barnabas at Antioch in Pisidia testify from the raising of David to Jesus. Note the usage of ‘RAISED UP’ i.e. to bing into existence or to cause an action according to his will or chosen by God or authorised by God:

Act 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he [RAISED UP] unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
Act 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise [RAISED] unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.

#4.

The Prophecy of begotten the son was to be a future date and not as trinity asserts that he was begotten before time.

today psalms 2_7

Jesus was the son of God through Mary, died and eternally begotten from the grave and granted immortality.

See more here: 21 of 100 [‘You are my Son, TODAY I have begotten you.’ – Which Day is Today?]

#5. 

When we contrast the visions of heaven under the Old and New Testaments Jesus is missing. Jesus is the new being in heaven in the visions of John and receives worship for the first time in heaven.

See more here:

#6.

The gospel record portray Jesus as human who is born, lives, dies but attains immortality and divine attributes (seated on the throne of God, given power, etc.). He becomes the author of salvation but himself required to be saved.

save him from death heb 5_7

#7.

Jesus is only revealed under the NT. This is obvious from the gospel narratives.

Heb 1:2  hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

#8.

The message of salvation through the example of a chosen man i.e. a christ is lost if he was pre-existent. Jesus is the exemplar of faith if he was human like us.

Heb 4:15  For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.

Jesus as a human inspires his followers to lead us to victory in truth though we can depend on the Father’s mercy and forgiveness when we stumble.

The message of salvation through the example of a chosen man i.e. a christ is lost if he was pre-existent.

I will put my trust in him

#9.

Jesus was exalted because of his human achievement and seated at the right hand of God. Jesus was rewarded to enter God’s presence in heaven on account of his human achievement.

A list of verse shows that Jesus was exalted for the first time in his life:

Jesus on account of his humility and obedience gets exalted:

Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.

Php 2:9 Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;

‘having become’

Implying previously the angels were not subject to him because he does not exist:

Heb 1:4  having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.

‘he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit’

Eph 1:20 which he worked in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places,

‘having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit’ – when?

Act 2:31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Act 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.

Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

God has made him both Lord and Christ’

What was MADE ‘Lord and Christ’ was not the pre-existent being but the human Jesus. The real Christ is the human Jesus and not a pre-existent spirit. The exaltation of the Christ was a new phenomenon.

Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

As far as humans were concerned the Jesus whom they crucified was not Lord and Christ before his birth other than as prophecy.

‘God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior’

What the apostles preached was that Jesus was exalted after he was brought back to life for the first time ever. They believed in a human Jesus how does a human death and is brought back to life:

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.

Act 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

‘You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore

Heb 1:9  You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

They sang a new song

The pre-existent Christ if he did exist was dormant and would not have received such a praise because they do not praise his nature but his deeds as human. Since they sing a NEW song, it is a literally a new event. Are the celebrating a re-entrant being or the victorious being. Did they ignore the pre-existent Christ till the time of incarnation and resurrection… this leads to speculation that is not warranted.

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

God made Jesus the head of the church:

Eph 1:22  And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

#10.

Is the real Jesus the human who was born, grep up, loved, cried, spoke, taught, performed miracles or a pre-existent being that incarnated?

Trinity requires the pre-incarnate being and the human to fuse together and the divine escape the cross. The human body is not significant other than to be crucified. The human Jesus is insignificant but the divine Jesus is central to christian belief.

In other forms of Christianity where it is believed the son existed as a lesser divine being again the human Jesus is not significant because what is resurrected is the not the human Jesus but the pre-incarnate being as his soul/life is preserved through the incarnation.

But, if Jesus does not pre-exist then he is a mere human (though son of God) who is actually resurrected and he is truly the first-fruit. The human Jesus sits on the very throne of God. Also was the pre-existent Jesus seated on the throne before his incarnation or does the human Jesus receive his reward for his obedience and faith?

Jesus was unique we are told on account of his birth but what God produced out of Mary was not a divine being but a human being. Being born in such a way he is consecrated by birth and is the holy one of God.

Luk 1:35  And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Jesus does have a divine origin – not in essence/nature – but in the purpose and will of God. Do you love the human Jesus of Nazareth or the divine Jesus or the pre-existent Jesus? I love the real human Jesus who continues to be Jesus but whose nature was changed like we also will be on that blessed day.

#11

Jesus and the believers are foreknown to God before time. That is what God is able to give prophecies through a definite plan. God’s foreknowledge if taken in faith can be viewed to exist independent of time:

1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

Rom 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Elohim YHWH is both God and Father of our Lord whom he chose as the Christ from the beginning and even us. As much we did not pre-exist our birth and yet were chosen so also the Christ.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

They great promise:

Matthew 25:34   Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 1:1-4 and the Basis for interpretation

Heb 1:1  God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

Heb 1:2  hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3  His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

How does the son who is described in v3

“the very image of his substance”

become ‘better than the angels’?

Was Jesus the very image of the Father in the past, the days of flesh or post his resurrection?

The story of the gospels is that a man attains divine attributes by being made immortal and omnipotent post his resurrection. The ‘very image of his substance’ is then seen spiritual rather than literal. ‘through whom also he made the worlds’ is read as that the world was created because of the son!

How Jesus was the image of God during the days of his flesh is elaborated here:

The fact that he is compared with angels prove that he was 100% human:

Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

He reaches heaven for the first time as a result of his earthly achievements NOT because he was divine. We are also explicitly told that he was begotten of Mary and eternally begotten from the dead at the resurrection and not at on any day before that!

Heb 1:3 when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This is again explicitly stating the he comes into existence when he comes into the world. The angels already exist prior to his birth and are asked to give him worship.

Heb 1:6 And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Again, the above shows that the Father / son relationship is a prophecy i.e. future tense:

Heb 1:5 I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

Jesus on the basis of his human deeds attains a seat next to God and is exalted above his peers. I.e. Jesus of his own nature or pre-existence is insignificant because he needs to be exalted by his God:

Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”

Heb 2:9  But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.

The Melchizedek framework of Interpretation

Heb 7:1  For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

Heb 7:2  and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.

Heb 7:3  He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.

Literal reading: Melchizedek is obviously eternal. But how? he was a human. Well, he had to be both God and man.

Some actually think that without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God means that Melchizedek was a heavenly being, if not a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Himself. Strictly speaking then becomes the FOURTH member of the Quadnity as the fourth person of the same essence as the son of God.

Spiritual reading:

  1. He was a type of Christ and Christ was a type of Melchizedek
  2. Melchisedec was a king, and so is the Lord Jesus – a king of God’s anointing;
  3. He was king of righteousness: his name signifies the righteous king. Jesus Christ is a rightful and a righteous king.
  4. He was king of Salem, that is, king of peace; first king of righteousness, and after that king of peace. So is our Lord Jesus;
  5. He was priest of the most high God, qualified and anointed in an extraordinary manner to be his priest among the Gentiles. So is the Lord Jesus; he was made priest of the most high God, and the Gentiles must come to God by him; it is only through his priesthood that we can obtain reconciliation and remission of sin.
  6. “He was without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days nor end of life” – to set him forth as an extraordinary person, without giving us his genealogy. Melchizedek and Jesus are not from the priestly tribe of Levi, but are priests according to God’s special calling.
  7. Melchizedek was ALSO like unto the Son of God, and continues a priest FOREVER. He bore the image of God in his piety and authority, and stands upon record as an immortal high priest – though Melchizedek died and awaits the resurrection.
  8. having neither beginning of days nor end of life — namely, history not having recorded his beginning nor end, as it has the beginning and end of Aaron.

Let us hear from these trinitarian commentators make their case like Unitarians (Spiritually):

“There is nothing in the account, Gen 14:18-20, to mark Melchisedec as a superhuman being: he is classed with the other kings in the chapter as a living historic personage: not as Origen thought, an angel; nor as the Jews thought, Shem, son of Noah; nor as Calmet, Enoch; nor as the Melchisedekites, that he was the Holy Ghost; nor as others, the Divine Word.” – JFB commentary

“There is no account of his parents, none of his birth, none of his death, none of the beginning or end of his priesthood; hence, he appears in the record without parents, genealogy, beginning or end, simply as one that liveth, a fit type of him whose priesthood and kingly state endure forever.” – B.W. Johnson

‘These are not stated as actual facts concerning Melchizedek. They are true so far as the narrative of Genesis presents him to us. He is set before us without any genealogy. The writer argues from the silence of Scripture. “The fact that Melchizedek had no recorded father or mother or lineage enhanced his dignity, because the Aaronic priesthood depended exclusively on the power to prove a direct descent from Aaron, which necessitated a most sorupulous care in the preservation of the priestly genealogies.” ’ – Preacher’s Homiletical

Without beginning of days or end of life, unlike the Jewish priests therefore, who began their ministry at thirty and closed it at fifty, the high priest holding his office until he died.” – Popular New Testament

Jesus like Melchizedek – both of whom did not pre-exist their human existence.

Jesus – “a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.” Heb 7:17 

“another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek” Heb 7:15 

Not that Jesus was eternally existent but that he was resurrected from the grave that he holds the office i.e. granted eternal life to continue in office forever:

“appoints a Son who has been MADE perfect forever.” – Heb 7:28 

but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.” – Heb 7:24 

“who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.” –Heb 7:16  

Interpretation framework:

  1. The record of Luke that Jesus was 100% man with no chance of preexistence or incarnation (Luke having examined the matter in detail does not come to the conclusion of a pre-existent Christ)
  2. A non pre-existed Jesus is in harmony with the Old testament prophecies concerning Jesus.
  3. Jesus pre-existed based on literal reading of John and few other passages. These passages can be harmonised with Luke’s gospels and the Acts of the Apostles if they are seen in spiritual/prophetical light.
  4. Jesus being the unique son of God and that God conceived the ‘PLAN’ of the son before his existence. The language in John revolves around Jesus being the son of God which is unique to trigger the symbolic language of Jesus.
  5. Jesus receives reward based on his human achievements and not based on his past credentials of being a divine being.
  6. It is a contradiction to ‘receive’ or be ‘given’ glory and honour because he was human if he already literally had this prior to his birth
  7. Read John in Isolation and you will get the trinity/pre-existent framework for interpretation i.e. Jesus existed as God or as an angel or something else before his incarnation. Read John in the context of the Old testament scriptures and the other three gospel records and Acts, you will get a Unitarian interpretation framework i.e. spiritual/symbolic expressions in the light of what he will be and who he was in terms of prophetic visions.

1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

Rom 8:29-30  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

The gospel record of John is examined next to understand the spiritual language used by the Lord – here:

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One thought on “69 of 100: Reasons why Christ did not Pre-exist his birth

  1. Pingback: 70 of 100: Did the Christ pre-exist? Examining the Gospel of John (Ch 1-6) | Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.

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