58 of 100: How is Jesus the Everlasting Father? (Isa 9:6)

How is Jesus the everlasting Father as prophesied by Isaiah?

Isa 9:6  For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

This is a future prophecy concerning Jesus. For instance ‘Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end,’ is yet to be fulfilled and will only be fulfilled at his return or second coming.

Trinitarians show this as proof that Jesus is the Father. Unfortunately this verse poses a contradiction:

The formula of Trinity states that

The Father is not the son

and

The Son is not the Father.

520px-shield-trinity-scutum-fidei-english-svg

So as a follower of Trinity you contradict yourself by saying Jesus is the Father as by definition of Trinity: Jesus is the son and NOT the father.

Yet practical Trinity sees the son as the Father and the Father as the son.

Jesus is the son and is not the Father of God. I.e. YHWH the God of Abraham does not call Jesus his Father.

The father testified:

‘and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”’ (Luk 3:22 )

Jesus also taught us not call Jesus as the Father as we understand the ‘term’:

Mat 23:8  But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

Mat 23:9  And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10  Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.

I.e Jesus explained who he was and who the Father was and how each should be honoured. So, the prophecy cannot be interpreted the way some suppose as proof text that Jesus is indeed the Father.

So we Jesus is the Mediator who brings the teachings of his God and Father to us.

Even Trinitarians pray to the Father through the son. Do you pray to the son through the Father?

Analysing Jesus’ seed – Psalms 22:30

Jesus did not have a wife to produce children in the natural sense, yet Psalms 22:30 states:

(KJV)  A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

(LEB)  Descendants will serve him. Regarding the Lord, it will be told to the next generation.

(WEBA)  Posterity shall serve him. Future generations shall be told about the Lord.

(YLT)  A seed doth serve Him, It is declared of the Lord to the generation.

(ESV)  Posterity shall serve him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation;

Jesus’ role was to lead us to God. But how does Jesus produce children?

Again Isaiah prophecies this:

Isa 53:10  Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

  • A. he shall see his offspring; (Father)
  • B. he shall prolong his days; (Everlasting)

A literal reading of the above does not make sense as Jesus neither married, had children nor did he enjoy a long life. Yet Jesus was promised to be the everlasting Father earlier in chapter 9 of Isaiah.

Albert Barnes – A trinitarian commentator explains:

He shall see his seed – His posterity; his descendants. The language here is taken from that which was regarded as the highest blessing among the Hebrews. With them length of days and a numerous posterity were regarded as the highest favors, and usually as the clearest proofs of the divine love. ‘Children’s children are the crown of old men’ Pro 17:6. See Psa 127:5; Psa 128:6: ‘Yea, thou shalt see thy children’s children, and peace upon Israel.’ So one of the highest blessings which could be promised to Abraham was that he would be made the father of many nations Gen 12:2; Gen 17:5-6. In accordance with this, the Messiah is promised that he shall see a numerous spiritual posterity. A similar declaration occurs in Psa 22:30, which is usually applied to the Messiah. ‘A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.’

John Gill –  Another trinitarian commentator explains:

He shall see his seed; or, “a seed”; a spiritual seed and offspring; a large number of souls, that shall be born again, of incorruptible seed, as the fruit of his sufferings and death; see Joh 12:24, this he presently began to see after his resurrection from the dead, and ascension to heaven; when great numbers were converted among the Jews, and after that multitudes in the Gentile world, and more or less in all ages; ever since has he had a seed to serve him; and so he will in the latter day, and to the end of time:

he shall prolong his days: live long, throughout all ages, to all eternity; though he was dead, he is alive, and lives for evermore; lives to see all the children that the Father gave him, and he has gathered together by his death, when scattered abroad, and see them all born again, and brought to glory.

JFB Trinitarian commentary explain:

his seed — His spiritual posterity shall be numerous (Psa 22:30); nay, more, though He must die, He shall see them. A numerous posterity was accounted a high blessing among the Hebrews; still more so, for one to live to see them (Gen 48:11; Psa 128:6).

Actually Trinitarians are in agreement with Unitarians on the ‘Fatherhood’ of Jesus 🙂

No3504w I’m sure Dan Brown will be happy with these proof texts to support his theory of Jesus’ children.

Now there are people who claim Jesus went to spend his old life (he shall prolong his days) in India.

Like Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 have to be understood in the right context so also Isaiah 9. Let us now turn to the New testament to see its fulfilment:

Heb 2:13  And again, “I will put my trust in him.” And again, “Behold, I and the children God has given me.”

Jesus faith and trust brought about the victory sin and death. Jesus makes us sons and daughters to God yet God gives them to Jesus.

We are the wife and children of Jesus as result of his obedience to faith.

Paul compares the Physical Adam with the Spiritual Adam. Eve was the mother of the living. Yet the human race was subject to death.

Jesus on the other hand produces eternal children through his resurrection.

1Co 15:20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

1Co 15:21  For as by a man came death, by a MAN has come also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:23  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Adam brought death, but Jesus brings EVERLASTING life.

Jesus himself is the firstfruit of this process.So Jesus is the everlasting Father as opposed to Adam the Father of death!

Natural v/s Spiritual (From heaven)

1Co 15:46  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.

1Co 15:47  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

1Co 15:48  As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.

1Co 15:49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

The prophecy of the Everlasting Father is fulfilled in Jesus in that he became the ‘life-giving spirit.’

1Co 15:45  Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being“; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

So this is an amazing prophecy about the man Jesus who will die young and a virgin yet produces innumerable children for God.

Summary of meaning:

— Everlasting – Promise of eternal life i.e. Jesus the Messiah will live for ever

— Father – The last Adam became a life-giving spirit i.e. Jesus will produce children for God

— Birthing process – Not creation or sex but resurrection.

sp-570-struck-by-god-body-of-christ-680x350

(Jesus should be paralled with Adam and not God to understand the prophecy)

Paul testifies thus (Jesus did not raise himself but the Father did, Trinitarians mis represent this truth)

1Co 15:15  We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.

1Co 15:16  For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.

1Co 15:17  And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

1Co 15:18  Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

1Co 15:19  If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

1Co 15:20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

1Co 15:21  For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:23  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

The Father is the source: Jesus feeds of the Father and we feed of Jesus:

“As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.” John 6:57   (ESV)

In place of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth – Psalms 45

Another analogy of Jesus as husband and ‘In place of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth.’

Psa 45:7  you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;

Psa 45:8  your robes are all fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia. From ivory palaces stringed instruments make you glad;

Psa 45:9  daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.

Psa 45:10  Hear, O daughter, and consider, and incline your ear: forget your people and your father’s house,

Psa 45:11  and the king will desire your beauty. Since he is your lord, bow to him.

Psa 45:12  The people of Tyre will seek your favor with gifts, the richest of the people.

Psa 45:13  All glorious is the princess in her chamber, with robes interwoven with gold.

Psa 45:14  In many-colored robes she is led to the king, with her virgin companions following behind her.

Psa 45:15  With joy and gladness they are led along as they enter the palace of the king.

Psa 45:16 In place of your fathers shall be your sons; you will make them princes in all the earth.

Psa 45:17  I will cause your name to be remembered in all generations; therefore nations will praise you forever and ever.

Abraham and the ‘Father’ title

Gen 17:3  And Aḇram fell on his face, and Elohim spoke with him, saying,

Gen 17:4  “As for Me, look, My covenant is with you, and you shall become a father of many nations.

Gen 17:5  “And no longer is your name called Aḇram, but your name shall be Aḇraham, because I shall make you a father of many nations.

Gen 17:6  “And I shall make you exceedingly fruitful, and make nations of you, and sovereigns shall come from you.

Gen 17:7  “And I shall establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be Elohim to you and your seed after you.

Abraham is called “father of nations”. God was still his Father. Further the promise was that YHWH Elohim will be Elohim to ‘Father’ Abraham and the  SEED (Jesus the Christ).

Now when we hear ‘Father’ Abraham do we exclaim this is Father God? No! So also Jesus the seed is not.

Rom 4:17  as it has been written, “I have made you a father of many nations”– in the presence of Him whom he believed, even Elohim, who gives life to the dead and calls that which does not exist as existing,

That is, the promise of Everlasting Father was with Abraham and his SEED (Jesus). The promise of eternal life is from Abraham because of his faith and Jesus the faithful son of God.

Appendix

George R. Noyes’s (1798-1868) Explanation of Isaiah 9:6

An alternate view:

http://trinities.org/blog/podcast-116-george-r-noyess-explanation-of-isaiah-96-and-john-11/

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39138/Noyes%2C%20Explanation%20of%20Isaiah%209%206%20and%20John%201%201%20-%202nd%20ed%201833.pdf

 

Advertisements

One thought on “58 of 100: How is Jesus the Everlasting Father? (Isa 9:6)

  1. Pingback: 67 of 100: Thomas’ confession – My Lord, My God | 100 Reasons why the Bible does not use the word Trinity

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s