55 of 100: On ‘Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him’ John 12:41

“While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.” Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.”  John 12:36-43 (ESV)

Though Jesus was ‘God sent’ many of the Jews did not believe in his message. John refers to the words of YHWH that Isaiah recorded when he saw the vision of the abode of God. Now trinitarians assert that Isaiah actually saw Jesus.

John’s context is ‘unbelief’ and not to show that Isaiah saw Jesus. As already noted in this blog post, Jesus did not exist in the heavens prior to his birth:

Reason 28 of 100 [Jesus was not in heaven before his birth to Mary: Contrasting Visions in Heaven before and after Jesus’ birth]

Let us examine Isaiah 6 for context:

“In the year that king Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each one had six wings. With two he covered his face. With two he covered his feet. With two he flew. One called to another, and said, “Holy, holy, holy, is Yahweh of Armies! The whole earth is full of his glory!” The foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. Then I said, “Woe is me! For I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell among a people of unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of Armies!” Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar. He touched my mouth with it, and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin forgiven.””  Isaiah 6:1-7 (WEBA)

seraph

The reason Isaiah did not see Jesus is obvious:

  1. The Seraphim declared that the one on the throne is Yahweh.
  2. Isaiah knew it was Yahweh. (The Messiah was not even born at this stage).
  3. “Jesus is not YHWH and YHWH is not Jesus” by the Greco-Roman Trinity formula(i.e. Trinity states: Father is not the son and Son is Not the Father). So, to state that Isaiah saw Jesus contradicts Trinity but the Oneness Pentecostal folks will be happy!
  4. In the visions of heaven in the New testament scriptures we see Jesus at the RIGHT hand of the throne of God. Because the throne belongs to Elohim YHWH and Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God his Father. In the visions of the Old testament Jesus is simply missing as he only existed as a concept or WORD of God at that time.

We note from John 1:14, that a spirit being did not become flesh but the word or thoughts of God became flesh:

Joh 1:14  The word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The focus is not Trinity but the focus is disbelief.

Isa 6:9  And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isaiah’s Commission from YHWH

Isa 6:8  I heard the Lord’s voice, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am. Send me!”

Isa 6:9  He said, “Go, and tell this people, ‘You hear indeed, but don’t understand; and you see indeed, but don’t perceive.’

Isa 6:10  Make the heart of this people fat. Make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.”

The context of John’s commentary is the rejection of Jesus by the Jews (and not to prove a trinity): John is referring to the passage in Isaiah where it is quoted:
Joh 12:42  Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;

Joh 12:43  for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

Joh 12:39  Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,

Joh 12:40  “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Joh 12:41  Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.

The Apostle Paul also refers to the same passage in his preaching also. John and Paul refer to this passage as this was a prophecy/attribute concerning the children of the Jews.

acts_of_the_apostles_chapter_28-5_bible_illustrations_by_sweet_media

“When they had appointed him a day, many people came to him at his lodging. He explained to them, testifying about God’s Kingdom, and persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and from the prophets, from morning until evening. Some believed the things which were spoken, and some disbelieved. When they didn’t agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had spoken one word, “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah, the prophet, to our fathers, saying, ‘Go to this people, and say, in hearing, you will hear, but will in no way understand. In seeing, you will see, but will in no way perceive. For this people’s heart has grown callous. Their ears are dull of hearing. Their eyes they have closed. Lest they should see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and would turn again, and I would heal them.’ “Be it known therefore to you, that the salvation of God is sent to the nations, and they will listen.””  Acts 28:23-28 (WEBA)

Also, note that, when Paul quotes he says:

‘The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet’

Now John quotes, he says:

‘the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah

So is Isaiah = Holy Spirit? (Typical trinitarian/oneness assumptions)

Rather, Isaiah had ownership of the words Given by God through his spirit.

It is thus obvious from Paul’s speech, that when Paul refers to the same passage the focus is unbelief and not Trinity or to show Jesus was seen by Isaiah.

Isaiah, Paul and Jesus were all victims of the Truth of this passage – in attempting to reveal the light of God to his people they were appointed to a mission of failure and rejection.

Let us know example John 12:41 in detail:

Some manuscripts to prove a Trinity, changed the text in John like this:

New International Version
Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

But ESV, KJV also Trinitarian bibles translate it differently:

English Standard Version
Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.

King James Bible

These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Now it is highly unlikely that scribes would have omitted ‘Jesus’ the when they made copies of the manuscript. This really posses a great difficulty, as the common man is now left at the mercy of scribal corruption.

Let us have a look at the Greek text:

Joh 12:41  These things  said  Esaias,  when  he saw  hisG846  glory,  and  spake  of him. G846

G846   (Strong) – The same Greek word is used for ‘his’ and ‘him’. That is a bit strange? Let us explore the Greek word for his/him further.

αὐτός

autos

ow-tos’

From the particle αὖ au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind; backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the compound of G1438) of the third person, and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: – her, it (-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, ([self-], the) same, ([him-, my-, thy-]) self, [your-] selves, she, that, their (-s), them ([-selves]), there [-at, -by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with], they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare G848.

Total KJV occurrences: 4813

Form the above definition it then follows that the verse can also possibly be translated as:

Joh 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his (YHWH’s) glory, and spake of him(them i.e. Jews).

This is because the context is the unbelief of the Jews just as it was with the them (Jews) during Isaiah’s time and Paul’s time. Isaiah was a great prophet and Jesus was an even greater prophet, yet the Jews were stubborn in their beliefs. Elohim YHWH himself had declared that they were stubborn and an unbelieving people who will not yield. Yet YHWH would send Isaiah, Jesus and Paul to the children of Abraham.

Reading in context:

These things said Esaias, when he saw his (YHWH’s) glory, and spake of themNevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. (Joh 12:41-43)

Can ‘them’ be a valid translation? Yes. There are passages in the bible that render ‘αὐτός‘ as ‘them‘. Here are a few examples:

Mat 4:19  And  he saith  unto them, G846  Follow  me, and   I will make   you  fishers  of men.

Mat 5:5  Blessed  are the meek:  for  theyG846  shall inherit  the  earth.

Joh 17:8  For  I have given  unto themG846  the  words  which  thou gavest    me

So, it is obvious that we are at the bias of translators who try to introduce their false beliefs.

The biggest problem with the doctrine of Trinity is that it denies God, even the very God of Jesus. Trinity fought against groups that claimed that Jesus was second to the Father. Trinity is a a belief among Christians that teach them to deny their very God and Father.

Jesus FAILED to teach the Jews about the Father just as he has also FAILED with Christians. Trinity was established as the dominant religion by the Roman Emperor Constantine. In subsequent centuries the Kingdom of Rome  (The Iron beast) would destroy and trample out all competing thoughts, including true believers.

Joh 12:44  Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me, but in him who sent me. Joh 12:45  He who sees me sees him who sent me.

When John mentions ‘‘the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah’’ – i.e. the words of Isaiah were the very words of God. To reject the message of Isaiah was not only a rejection of Isaiah but also God who sent him.

Jesus plainly declared that he had got the message from God in the same way that prophets prior to him had also received their message from God:

Joh 12:49  For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Joh 12:50  I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.

Trinitarians, the Father is not a bad God as many early Gnostics preached. Trinitarians stop waging a war between the bad God of the Old testament and the New Improved God of the New testament. Trinity is a heretical term as it is foreign to the pages of the bible.

When we consider the larger context of Isaiah 6, there is a parable of a vineyard recorded in Isaiah 3 that show the care and mercy of the Father. Jesus was an extension of his love for his people as already demonstrated through sufferings of many of his prophets:

“My beloved had a vineyard on a very fruitful hill.”

“My beloved had a vineyard on a very fruitful hill.”

“My beloved had a vineyard on a very fruitful hill.”

img_1980

??

Who’s the beloved?

Yahweh, the God of the Jewish people.

YHWH God is called a ‘beloved’?

How can we call GOD our beloved?

Does Isaiah really call Elohim Yahweh as his beloved?

Let us look at the Hebrew word “Beloved” – yed-eed’. Let us look at how this word is used:

Deuteronomy 33:12: About Benjamin he said, “The BELOVED of Yahweh will dwell in safety by him. He covers him all day long. He dwells between his shoulders.”

Psalms 108:5 Be exalted, God, above the heavens! Let your glory be over all the earth. That your BELOVED may be delivered, save with your right hand, and answer us.

We can see from the above that God calls ‘Benjamin’ as his beloved and the Psalmist refers himself as the the beloved of God. But now Isaiah reciprocates that message and calls Elohim Yahweh as his BELOVED.

Have you ever called your Father – Beloved?

The first command is to love your Father with all your heart and what you love with all your heart is definitely your beloved.

The parable:

“Let me sing for my well beloved a song of my beloved about his vineyard. My beloved had a vineyard on a very fruitful hill. He dug it up, gathered out its stones, planted it with the choicest vine, built a tower in the middle of it, and also cut out a wine press therein. He looked for it to yield grapes, but it yielded wild grapes. “Now, inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, please judge between me and my vineyard. What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? Why, when I looked for it to yield grapes, did it yield wild grapes?”  Isaiah 5:1-4 (WEBA)

Here we see the parable explained in a easier way for us to understand:

Psalms 80:8-11   (WEBA)

8  You brought a vine out of Egypt. You drove out the nations, and planted it.

9  You cleared the ground for it. It took deep root, and filled the land.

10  The mountains were covered with its shadow. Its boughs were like God’s cedars.

11  It sent out its branches to the sea, Its shoots to the River.

So, the lesson for us is that we are the beloved of God and his vineyard. Elohim is expecting grapes (Justice and righteousness) from us.

Now Jesus, extends these concepts in his parables of the vineyard. The Parable of the Tenants reads

Mat 21:33  Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Mat 21:34  And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Mat 21:35  And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Mat 21:36  Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Mat 21:37  But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Mat 21:38  But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Mat 21:39  And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

Mat 21:40  When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Mat 21:41  They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Mat 21:42  Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Mat 21:43  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:44  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Mat 21:45  And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Mat 21:46  But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Here is see the love of the Father in that he does not give up with Jeremiah or Zachariah or Isaiah or Ezekiel or Elijah or the other prophets but continues his love with his son to preach the good news to cause repentance and change of heart. He did not stop with Jesus his beloved son but continued the preaching through the sufferings of James, Peter, Stephen, Paul and others.

God appeals for you to judge:

Isa 5:3  “Now, inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, please judge between me and my vineyard.

Isa 5:4  What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? Why, when I looked for it to yield grapes, did it yield wild grapes?

Love is the character of the Father that Jesus inherits. For instance, in The Parable of the Prodigal Son, Jesus is not the son. Jesus explains the Father’s love:

Luk 15:20  “He arose, and came to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

www-imagenesreligiosas-info

Trinitarians seem to have misunderstood and actually have taken a hatred towards the Father and misunderstood Jesus as the Father. The cannot get themselves to accept the first command in their heart – i.e. Love Yahweh, they can only love Yahweh by the person of jesus and therefore Trinitarians are not Christians i.e. they do not know Christ’s God.

This was the love the prophets, David and Moses preached of old which ye have missed. God knows we are but mud and is able to overlook our sins. You make out that God has no tolerance for sin and make him out to be a super strict Phycho Dad! No! He is a loving Father and merciful Father. Yahweh was, is and will be a merciful God as taught by Isaiah and Jesus and he will also execute judgment as taught by Jesus and Isaiah!

Extreme mercy was always shown to the sinner from the beginning starting with Cain the murderer to cause repentance and change of heart.

Appendix

Here is an excerpt from ‘The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture – The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament’ by Bart D. Ehrman

john12_41_bart

trinity_changes_bart

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One thought on “55 of 100: On ‘Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him’ John 12:41

  1. Pingback: 69 of 100: Reasons why Christ did not Pre-exist his birth | Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.

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