100 Reasons why the Bible does not use the word Trinity: Reason 20 of 100 [I and the Father are one V/S the Father is greater than I – Which is true?]

I and the Father are one.(John 10:30 ESV)

 

For the Father is greater than I.(John 14:28 ESV)

 

The confusion is which of the verses do we take literally and which do we interpret?

OR more accurately

Which do we take literally and which do we take spiritually?

The two verses do have very different implications based on the direction we take.

Given other contexts how the ‘oneness’ concept is used elsewhere it becomes obvious that he is talking of spiritual oneness.

 

I and the Father are one.(John 10:30 ESV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

(John 10:38 ESV)

 

 

And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.(John 17:11 ESV)

 

that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.(John 17:21 ESV)

 

 

Now in the above verses in John 17, is Jesus’ prayer on ONENESS – spiritual or literal?

(Now Jesus’ prayer itself is of course a fake as it is not fitting for one essence of the Godhead to pray to the other essence).

Spiritual discernment is subjective to one’s presuppositions!

 

“I and the Father are one.”(John 10:30 ESV) But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.(1 Corinthians 11:3 ESV)

 

 

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.(John 13:16 ESV)

 

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”

(John 20:21 ESV)

 

“Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

(Matthew 12:18 ESV)

 

 

For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.(1 Corinthians 15:27-28 ESV)

 

“I and the Father are one” is spiritual and a clear reason why the bible does NOT use the word Trinity.

[Commentators comment that this is his Human side of things, but, by so doing they violate the principle of trinity of Jesus being fully God and Fully man!]

If as Human he took on a subordinate role then we find in heaven also he is still subordinate:

Rev 3:12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

Looking at the matter spiritually,

Jesus was ONE with God in purpose/teaching while on earth and in heaven.

So,

Literally speaking

  • Jesus is always inferior to the Father HIS creator!
  • Jesus is always one with God spiritually!

Let us give a little thought to the creation of Jesus:

Creation of Jesus:

You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, (Hebrews 2:7 ESV)

No fully divine / fully human stuff here – but Fully HUMAN stuff is what is spoken of here. Humans are inferior to angels. Humans are not fully God and fully human and at the same time maintain a position inferior to the angels.

Jesus’ Elevated Position:

Heb 1:4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

i.e.

He has ‘become’ superior to the angels but not superior or equal to God! Whatever equality he possesses with God is God given – example Authority!

The son had a definite beginning: “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”:

 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? (Hebrews 1:4-5 ESV)

 

If Jesus was fully human none of the above verses pose any difficulty! The enemy in Job’s case could never accept Job was genuine and a mere man could be righteous before God as much as Trinitarians cannot accept Jesus was a man obedient to his God to the fullest and that salvation could come by a man! Did not God strike Job crazy just to prove to you that Job was genuine and a MAN?

Jesus himself bore witness that he was ‘a nothing’ when compared to his creator:

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. (John 5:19 ESV)

Joh 14:10 The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority

“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. (John 5:30 ESV)

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
(Acts 10:38 ESV)

For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment–what to say and what to speak.
(John 12:49 ESV)

So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
(John 8:28 ESV)

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
(John 5:19 ESV)

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