The formula of Chalcedon, “one person in two natures,” is given different emphases in the East and West. The Council of Chalcedon (AD 451) issued the ‘Chalcedonian Definition,’ which repudiated the notion of a single nature in Christ, and declared that he has two natures in one person and hypostasis; it also insisted on the completeness of his two natures: Godhead and manhood. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon)
Here is a list of ecumenical councils leading to the Council of Chalcedon
- First Council of Nicaea (325) repudiated Arianism, declared that Christ is “homoousios with the Father” (of the same substance as the Father), and adopted the original Nicene Creed, fixed Easter date; recognised primacy of the sees of Rome, Alexandria and Antioch and granted the See of Jerusalem a position of honor.
- First Council of Constantinople (381) repudiated Arianism and Macedonianism, declared that Christ is “born of the Father before all time”, revised the Nicene Creed in regard to the Holy Spirit.
- Council of Ephesus (431) repudiated Nestorianism, proclaimed the Virgin Mary as the Theotokos (“Birth-giver to God”, “God-bearer”, “Mother of God”), repudiated Pelagianism, and reaffirmed the Nicene Creed.
This and all the following councils in this list are not recognised by all of the Church of the East.
Second Council of Ephesus (449) declared Eutyches orthodox and attacked his opponents.
Though originally convened as an ecumenical council, this council is not recognised as ecumenical and denounced as a Robber Council by the Chalcedonians (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants).
- Council of Chalcedon (451) repudiated the Eutychian doctrine of monophysitism, adopted the Chalcedonian Creed, which described the hypostatic union of the two natures of Christ, human and divine. Reinstated those deposed in 449 and deposed Dioscorus of Alexandria. Elevation of the bishoprics of Constantinople and Jerusalem to the status of patriarchates. This is also the last council explicitly recognised by the Anglican Communion.
Now when we read about the prayers of Jesus then we have to ask questions:
- Are they genuine? If he was God himself and co-equal with the Father then his prayers did not really mean anything
- If in the human state did he loose his God state that caused the prayer? This will contradict the Chalcedonian Creed.
- At a rational level Jesus had to be fully human to pray to God with genuineness. That he believed HIS God and HIS FATHER would respond to the prayer.
- Now when Jesus was human and had lost his GODhead position i.e. he was GOD, becomes Human (detached 100% from the Godhead) and then becomes GOD again! I assume this not the trinity position?
- http://carm.org/jesus-two-natures gives some terminologies best understood by post biblical writers who have locked themselves with an illogical formula of the trinity: Jesus’ two natures are not “mixed together” (Eutychianism), nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.
Let us take a different approach. Now you have established through several verses that Jesus is God and then you come to these prayers and have to struggle for any reasonable explanation.
This post does not address Jesus’ pre-existent state or his post human period in heaven. The focus is Jesus’ prayers and what they signify in terms of the trinity. This post does not address if currently praying to Jesus or praying through Jesus should be adopted or the role of Jesus post his ascension.
Why not look at the scenes of Jesus praying and ask the question who really was Jesus? Ofcourse if all these prayers are not genuine prayers of request then nothing will change! The Trinity obscures the truth. It does not allow you accept the prayers of Jesus as genuine and therefore you will never understand the GOD/MAN mystery. Your church fathers may come with terminology after terminology and formalize and ban other beliefs but they will never attain the truth.
1. Mark 1:35
Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed.
2. Matthew 6:9-13
“This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
Hey! Jesus told you to pray to the Father like also did! But of course trinity teaches you better that this. So when you pray to the Father you are thinking of Jesus the Son!
3. Matthew 11:25-26
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
4. Matthew 14:23
After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone.
5. Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.
6. Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
7. Luke 22:41-44
He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
8. Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
9. John 11:41-42
So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
10. John 12:27-28
“Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.”
11. John 17:1-26
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name–the name you gave me–so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
12. Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
If you accept Jesus’s prayers are genuine trinity will collapse. That will be such a big blow of EGOs. So you will continue in the mystery of Trinity unless you try to redefine it… but that may lead YOU to the truth or more obscure ideas.
At a simplistic level if Jesus’ prayers were genuine then that would make him a pure human. The obvious divinity of Jesus comes from that the fact that he had no human father. If we literally believe the birth of Jesus’s record, i.e. Mary was his Mother and YHWH was his father we do get a unique being. Biologically however did he possess any more advantage than John the Baptist? I.e. were his genes different? Scriptures are very clear to mention that he was fully human while on earth. Now he was not very different from Adam in terms of birth – both had missing human fathers. Eve is even more strange – Her father and Mother is Adam and God!
If God creates a baby today who has no human parents like Adam – then what nature would he possess? Let us say then he gets adopted into a family. When asked to fill an application form who would he put down as his dad – His real dad or the dad who adopted him?